bestway
3 Answers
bestway
You may remember, Catholic inquisitors persecuted many good men, scientists like Galileo. Threat of torture or burning at the stake caused many true believer to recant. Nor did the Catholic church take kindly to early translators of scripture such as Wycliffe or the Lo-lards who were harmless bible students. Catholic King Henry 8th ordered the murder of thousands of the God fearing people, after which the Pope bestowed on him the title "Defender of the Faith" which title he continued to hold after he split with Rome establishing himself as Head of the C of E which title his successors hold to this day.
| 13 years ago. Rating: 4 | |
Apologies for my long absence I have been getting my computer sorted among other things.
So, is the Athanasian Creed a 1st century or a 4th century doctrine?
How can anybody be sure this is not some personal bias?
All you have to do is put Athanasian Creed in your browser.
There you will find several definitions of the Creed both Catholic and Protestant.
May I suggest you copy and paste these into your note pad where you can compare them with text in you favored bible translations.
You will find that Alexandrian Archbishop Athanasius lived from 296 AD to 373 AD
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia (which you can download of buy on a disc.)
While most of the disputing occurred from the first ecumenical council of Nicaea in 325 AD.,
It is suggested by the Catholic Encyclopedia that the final form of the trinity doctrine
Came from sources other than Athanasius.
The same encyclopedia tells us that many of the doctrines of the Roman church came not from the Greek texts of the 1st Century Apostles but from Greek Philosophers like Plato and Socrates.
So there you have it ladies and gentlemen.
First Century Christians had no need for creeds or dogmas.
Further the Protestant revolt was exactly that, a revolt against the Roman church.
History demonstrates it was not a serious attempt to get back to the pure Christian faith of the 1st Century but was in fact a protest against Rome. Hence it split into thousands of sects.
bestway
bestway
So, is the Athanasian Creed a 1st century or a 4th century doctrine?
How can anybody be sure this is not some personal bias?
All you have to do is put Athanasian Creed in your browser.
There you will find several definitions of the Creed both Catholic and Protestant.
May I suggest you copy and paste these into your note pad where you can compare them with text in you favored bible translations.
You will find that Alexandrian Archbishop Athanasius lived from 296 AD to 373 AD
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia (which you can download of buy on a disc.)
While most of the disputing occurred from the first ecumenical council of Nicaea in 325 AD.,
It is suggested by the Catholic Encyclopedia that the final form of the trinity doctrine
Came from sources other than Athanasius.
The same encyclopedia tells us that many of the doctrines of the Roman church came not from the Greek texts of the 1st Century Apostles but from Greek Philosophers like Plato and Socrates.
So there you have it ladies and gentlemen.
First Century Christians had no need for creeds or dogmas.
Further the Protestant revolt was exactly that, a revolt against the Roman church.
History demonstrates it was not a serious attempt to get back to the pure Christian faith of the 1st Century but was in fact a protest against Rome. Hence it split into thousands of sects.
| 13 years ago. Rating: 4 | |
As a matter of fact Arian was much closer to bible truth than most of the Bishops that were intent on fusing a form of Christianity with paganism to make it a tool of the state. The Catholic encyclopedia admits that prominent church "fathers" introduced Greek philosophy as taught by Socrates and Plato, hence false the doctrine of the immortality of the human soul was substituted for the teaching of the resurrection. But thank you for your answer
Thank you daren 1
Its has all gone very quite. Maybe they all through the towel in with this last question.
Its has all gone very quite. Maybe they all through the towel in with this last question.
armstrj
The Athanasian Creed was written in 325 AD. It contridicted The Apostles Creed written in 120 AD.Which said "I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.. And in Jesus Christ, he only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he decended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascendedinto heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead: I believe in the Holy Spirit; the catholic* church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the everlasting. Amen"
* At that time it meant universal
In the 205 years the true understanding of the truth laid out by Jesus got twisted around into a false religion still being practiced today.
bestway
armstrj
bestway
* At that time it meant universal
In the 205 years the true understanding of the truth laid out by Jesus got twisted around into a false religion still being practiced today.
| 13 years ago. Rating: 4 | |
Thank you armstrj
You quote the Apostles creed
The doctine of the trinity is the one where it says he was co-existant, co-equal, and co-eternal
Of course he could not be co existant because he was begotten (John 3 16)
He could not be co-equal because he admitted "The father is greater than I am" Also "No man knows the day or the hour not even the son but only the father."
and he could not be co-eternal because he died and had to be resurrected by God.
Both Creeds are devious and inaccurate
The apostles of Jesus, Paul and John, warned about the apostacy that would creep into the congregations after their deaths.
You quote the Apostles creed
The doctine of the trinity is the one where it says he was co-existant, co-equal, and co-eternal
Of course he could not be co existant because he was begotten (John 3 16)
He could not be co-equal because he admitted "The father is greater than I am" Also "No man knows the day or the hour not even the son but only the father."
and he could not be co-eternal because he died and had to be resurrected by God.
Both Creeds are devious and inaccurate
The apostles of Jesus, Paul and John, warned about the apostacy that would creep into the congregations after their deaths.
bestway,
I don't read the Apostles Creed as saying Jesus co-existed or that he is co-equal, or co-eternal. I see it saying that Jesus was born of a woman and the Holy Spirit. I see it as saying that Jesus died. God can not die therefore Jesus cannot be God. Therefore it does not support the "trinity". It seems to me that it is consistant with the way I read the Bible. There is only one God who is the Creator of all things, and that God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son,who died on the stake and was ressurected. When Jesus returns he will raise the ones who are asleep in him and with them and the ones who are still alive and believe in him he will judge and will rule with him here on earth.
I don't read the Apostles Creed as saying Jesus co-existed or that he is co-equal, or co-eternal. I see it saying that Jesus was born of a woman and the Holy Spirit. I see it as saying that Jesus died. God can not die therefore Jesus cannot be God. Therefore it does not support the "trinity". It seems to me that it is consistant with the way I read the Bible. There is only one God who is the Creator of all things, and that God so love the world that he gave his only begotten son,who died on the stake and was ressurected. When Jesus returns he will raise the ones who are asleep in him and with them and the ones who are still alive and believe in him he will judge and will rule with him here on earth.
A little confusion here maybe
It’s the 4th century Athanasian Creed that claims three persons in one God. Please look it up in your browser.
You make three good points.
1)I had not realised that these creeds were contradictory.
2)You are correct, Christ died on a torture stake.
3)Yes the greater part of dead mankind is still asleep in the grave and not living in some imaginary spirit world.
However: The sign of Christ’s invisible presence has been clearly seen by millions since 1914, indicating that the resurrection of the first fruits has begun.
So I have to ask you are you with me on this? Or does it give you problems?
It’s the 4th century Athanasian Creed that claims three persons in one God. Please look it up in your browser.
You make three good points.
1)I had not realised that these creeds were contradictory.
2)You are correct, Christ died on a torture stake.
3)Yes the greater part of dead mankind is still asleep in the grave and not living in some imaginary spirit world.
However: The sign of Christ’s invisible presence has been clearly seen by millions since 1914, indicating that the resurrection of the first fruits has begun.
So I have to ask you are you with me on this? Or does it give you problems?
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